A few months back, I stated on a popular Internet marketing forum that John Carlton had rebuffed my numerous requests for an interview. Apparently, a few people went back and told John that I had trashed him in a public forum. I honestly didn't feel that I had trashed John, of course, but that's what John was led to believe.
Anyway, to make a long story short, I've cleared things up with John and apologized for the misunderstanding.
John was kind and gracious enough to take time out of his extremely busy schedule and consented to this amazing interview.
Enjoy!
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Dale King: Today I'm interviewing legendary copywriting guru, John Carlton.
Hello John. Before I ask you the "starter" question of how you got started
in online marketing, let me ask: how are you?
John Carlton: Hi Dale. I'm friggin' busy, actually. For many years, my
lifestyle was that of the privileged freelancer -- office in the house, one
part-time assistant, a few high-paying jobs each year (with royalties), and
lots and lots of time off. Then, I decided to start teaching what I know
about advertising, marketing and freelancing, and that lazy lifestyle had to
be put on hiatus. I made this decision consciously -- I knew that having a
monthly newsletter, promising attention and critiques and seminars to
subscribers, meant that I would no longer be able to take two or three
months off at a time anymore.
I blame it on mid-life crisis -- something deep inside my head started complaining that I needed to really apply myself for a while. I had books to write, courses to get out, important insight and advice to share with other writers. I'd made a vow, back when I started out in this career, that when I "made it", I would help other writers as much as I could. Back when I jumped into freelancing, there were zero places to find help, no guru's anywhere, and only a handful of ancient books (most of them out of print at the time) worth anything.
The first pro copywriter I met insisted I would never understand the gig, because it was "too hard". That pissed me off, and I used that negative energy to get past the first sets of obstacles to becoming a pro. I made every single mistake a beginning freelancer could make (and even discovered some nasty new
ones)... and I believe that hard road to success prepared me better than
anything else to become a teacher.
The move from offline marketing -- I started out in direct mail and
print advertising -- was easy. I began my advertising career in the late
70s in Silicon Valley, working in the art department of a catalog that sold
supplies for mainframe computers. Our offices were next to the Wang and HP
buildings in Santa Clara. And I lived in a quasi-communal house in Palo
Alto run by the guy who ran the Artificial Intelligence lab at Stanford.
This was before PCs were a commercial option... yet this guy had a private
hookup in his bedroom directly to the nascent Internet. Back then, it was
just universities (and the military) using it... but I got interested
through the games he was able to play. (The first "hobbit" style games used
all text, no graphics, orange letters on a black screen, but it was still
exciting stuff.)
So, while I had zero "geek" skills, I was not surprised by the
emergence of the World Wide Web in the 90s. In fact, I'd spent much of the
80s wondering what was taking so long.
During the early-90s, I was still co-producing seminars with Gary
Halbert, and we often had tech-savvy entrepreneurs attend. The
traffic-generating power of the Web was evident even back then, and I wrote
an ad for one of the first PC magazines directing people to a simple website
with a phone number to call. I can't prove it, but I believe it was one of
the first commercial ads using the Web. The project failed -- long story --
but the number of people who called and left their contact info was
staggering.
The moment AOL raised its ugly head, I began using email as a primary
way of contacting and keeping in touch with clients. Emailing Word
documents, instead of snail-mailing printed manuscripts, was just cool.
I've felt I was in a science fiction novel ever since my first computer (a
jerry-rigged contraption using 2 pilfered IBM drives and pirated 5-1/4"
floppies of DOS and a now-obsolete word processing software).
If I bring any advantage to online marketing, it's that I've lived
through and succeeded with multiple other technological upheavals in
advertising. I wrote some of the first infomercials in the 80s, was right
there on the cutting edge of video (I knew Bill Myers long before he was
famous, from the seminars), as well as the brief spurts that fax-blasting
and toll (as opposed to toll-free) phone numbers enjoyed. So I immediately
recognized the Web as, first and foremost, simply another vehicle for
getting your message out. Nothing magical or mysterious about it --
underneath the high-tech gadgetry, it's still human-to-human interaction...
and so my deep knowledge of classic salesmanship has kept me on the front
lines.
Dale King: Some Internet Marketing experts advise newbies to
steer clear of certains areas of Internet Marketing, like selling
e-books on how to make money, advertising services, SEO services,
copywriting, etc., because those particular niches are deemed to be
"too competitive." Do you agree with that assessment?
John Carlton: Nah. It's not how competitive the market is that matters...
it's your own resources. The great thing about online marketing is that,
once you have a pair of eyeballs on your site, you're "equal" to every
competitor you have. Doesn't matter that you're up against multi-national
corporations with billions behind them -- you can create a site from your
kitchen table that is more interesting, more relevant, and more in tune with
what your reader wants or needs. It's the ultimate level playing field.
That said, many rookies seriously over-estimate what they bring to the
table, and under-estimate what they'll need to succeed in a given market. I
use a simple metaphor: Going into a new market is like hopping on a bus
headed downtown, and getting off and walking down the first dark alley you
see. If you are unprepared, you're going to die. However, there are oodles
of ways to prepare -- in this metaphor, you could learn a martial art,
research maps, talk to local cops, arrange for meetings with the area gangs,
hire Guido to watch your back, etc.
The thing is, it's all about research, detective work and preparation.
The guys who succeed aren't rolling the dice -- they're going into a new
market loaded for bear. They know what resources they need, where their
vulnerabilities are, what sort of capital they need to raise, etc. And they
study the competition... and know their weak spots.
Every market is up for grabs online right now. It's still the Wild
West.
Dale King: How is Internet Marketing different now, as opposed
to when you first got started online?
John Carlton: In a basic way, it's not different at all. I arrived online
early, and expected rapid and constant technology upheaval and change. I
haven't been disappointed. I would be astonished to find a niche, now, that
isn't ruled by a direct marketer... but there may still be some out there.
In the early days, using good entrepreneurial salesmanship online meant --
in most markets -- that you were often the ONLY marketer doing it. It was
all low-hanging fruit.
That's not the case anymore. This is the Information Age, and that
means all info almost instantly becomes common currency online. If you
write an ad that works in a niche, you're gonna have savvy competitors later
that same day, copying you. Brutal. Still, there is always a hierarchy in
any market, and once you've solved the basic business problems -- good
product, delivery means (virtual or shipping), merchant account, order
taking operations, and traffic generation -- then it's all about your skills
at selling and getting your message out.
Besides the amazing advantage of email being so cost-efficient, the
biggest obstacle for entrepreneurs has always been the merchant account. I
can't tell you how astonished old-time marketers are that it's now so easy
to be able to take credit cards. In the direct mail days, banks hated
entrepreneurs, and your merchant account (if you could manage to get one)
was your single most precious resource. You were dead in the water without
one. Now, online, it's not even an issue anymore. PayPal, online merchant
accounts, all sorts of options are available. It's changed everything.
Dale King: How important has goal-setting been to your overall
success?
John Carlton: Easily half the newsletters I write every year touch on goal
setting. I was a slacker, absolutely clueless about life and business,
until I hit age 32. Something snapped, and I got serious about making
something of myself. I adopted the mantra "business before pleasure", and
got busy. One of the first books I read was "Think and Grow Rich", and it
was like turning on a light in a dark room for me -- total instant
revelation. The concept of wanting things was new to me -- I had just
drifted, zombie-like, in life until then, with my lust on hold. The more
advanced concept of making a plan to GET what I wanted just set me on fire.
My first lists of desires were feeble and silly... and yet I achieved every
single goal I set out. I'm an old hand at it now, and fearless about
challenges. My motto is "There is always a way", and many top marketers
privately call me for advice because they've hit a stopping point and need
input from a grizzled veteran like me who is adept at finding doors in solid
walls.
Without goal-setting, you're relying on luck. Life's too short. Be
proactive, and go after what you want. (The big secret: Learning to WANT
things is also a skill that has to be honed and nurtured... and you just
have to put in the time to get good at it.)
Dale King: How important has reading been to your overall
success?
John Carlton: Oh, stop. When I decided to become a freelancer, I had one
month's rent, and one tank of gas in the car. Desperation city. Yet, the
first thing I did after quitting my job with The Man was to take an Evelyn
Woods speed-reading course. Then I spent a long time at the library,
plowing through every single book they had on advertising, marketing,
copywriting, writing, selling, business, etc. I did it to "catch up" with
everyone else in business at the time -- I just figured that since I was
starting so late, I needed to educate myself fast. Turned out that most
people in business don't read at all, and my little exercise in
forced-learning put me light years AHEAD of everyone else. Helped me zoom
to the top of the Los Angeles freelance crowd.
Dale King: If you could recommend one book that all Internet
marketers should read, what would it be?
John Carlton: All marketers, period, should read "Think and Grow Rich".
Then, of course, my lesson-packed "Kick Ass Copywriting Secrets of a
Marketing Rebel". This is an interesting question, worth researching. I
don't actually have a single book in mind that specifically references the
Web. Honestly, with all the free info out there, you should just create
your own living book in your head by spending a lot of time on Google --
search for good stuff on creating sites, marketing them, using PR, getting
hip to joint ventures and SEO, hiring geeks, etc. Create your own "For
Dummies" book. It's all out there.
Dale King: In your opinion, what technology has changed Internet
Marketing the most over the last 5 years?
John Carlton: High speed access. America is still behind other First World
countries in getting broadband to everyone, but I think you're safe in
believing that most markets of Web-savvy prospects have DSL now. So you can
start taking advantage of the multi-media goodies -- video, dynamic graphics
(when applicable -- be wary of distraction), interactive stuff, etc.
Dale King: What new technology do you see changing Internet
Marketing over the next 5 years?
John Carlton: Portability of content. I did one of the very first podcasts
on marketing for iTunes ("How To Write a Damn Good Ad... in 9 minutes")...
and I got feedback on how great it was to download it and play it in the
car. We're almost at the point where the download part will be a quaint
memory -- the iPhone and its competitors are bringing everything directly to
wherever you're at. All the steps we have to take now will be reduced to
just one: Turn on your device.
Dale King: What person has influenced you the most in your
lifetime, and how?
John Carlton: Gary Halbert, of course. I've written about him a lot since
he died this past Spring -- you can see the posts at my blog,
http://www.john-carlton.com.
Dale King: If you could give my readers one piece of advice,
what would it be?
John Carlton: Find a source of info you can trust, and get busy with
proactive movement. Few marketers succeed on their own -- my own circle of
friends, colleagues and co-marketers is vast, and includes everyone you've
ever heard of. Even so, there are just a handful I consider "go-to guys",
who I call up first with a problem or question. It's the concept of the
"mastermind group" -- don't go it alone, but instead gather people around
you who share your passions and ambitions.
I'm not the only guru out there, of course -- and I'm not even close to being "right" for everyone. I'm gruff, irreverent, and I've been around the block too many times to suffer fools. So I urge people to find a teacher that fits their needs and learning style. You don't have to like the teacher... but you do need him or her to care enough to kick you in the butt, often. We all suffer from ruts and routines and nonsensical belief systems that need dismantling. Find a mentor, and get busy.
Dale King: Thank you very much, John . I appreciate you taking the
time to do this interview.
John Carlton: Thanks for the chance to rant. Now, please stop trashing me
on the Forums, dude. I'm one of the good guys.
Dale King: Ha, ha, ha...Yes, John, you are indeed "one of the good guys," and again, I apologize for the misunderstanding. Thanks again for taking time out of your busy schedule to do the interview. I really appreciate it.
John Carlton: Thanks, Dale.
John's websites:
http://www.john-carlton.com.
http://www.marketingrebel.com
This interview is the exclusive property of John Carlton. It may not be republished in any format - period.
